paragraphs | To All My Vampire Friends...

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Vampire dislikes: Sparkles, corrupting their weaknesses, vampires that are always horrifying looking, vampires that are "too" powerful

Vampire likes: Vampires that don't "change," vampires that can conceal their nature (but maybe it's difficult), can't go out in sunlight without consequences, killed by decapitation, fire, stakes to the heart, aka Ye' Ol' Standards

In general, I like for there to be pros and cons to being a vampire. One of the things I really like about the Whedon vampires is that when they're turned they don't do a lot of growing as people. They may make a few changes, like to style or speech, but their core personalities remain the same, even over hundreds of years and it's because they literally can't change; becoming a vampire stripped them of that ability.

I also like for there to be some thought to vampire physiology. As long as it's consistent in a universe, I'll probably swallow most of it, however vampire babies or anything else with a vampire being able to give life to someone seems wrong to me. I can kind of be down with vampire circulation that isn't controlled by the heart, but um, sometimes I have problems with that, too.

I'm a big fan of vampires being totally effed-up and not seeing any moral issues, so like, sex with mommy is on! I don't like seeing sex with mommy, but you get the point I think. Warped senses of morality are cool, though. Just, it doesn't make sense to me if a vampire is evil because it's the evil thing to do. I like it better when there's a warped sense of reasoning in there (which, okay, this is actually about characters in general, actually).

Um, I could babble about vampires more, if you like. ;)

Thank you, Em! You've given me some great things to think about. Including physiology...no bebes, no life-giving, I agree with that. Vampire circulation though--I wouldn't mind suggestions that you can buy in a vampire.

As for my vampire, what you are describing is the direction I am leaning toward...a warped sense of reasoning. That will play a big role I think in dealings with my female character (dang it, I really do need to name her). The storyline I have in mind definitely will make a perfect vehicle for such a character. I envision him very much alone, his kind on the endangered species list... Hmmm...

More more...this is extremely helpful. And lol I really am tempted to write this prior to Lee's story.

vampires that don't 'change' -- are you saying no shapeshifting vampires? I am not a fan of flying, bat-winged vamps myself...besides if mine could, he would possibly not need my character at all. LOL.

A crippled vampire...let's see, wasn't there one in the Angel series...a weak vampire. lol. Vague memories...

Vampire physiology fucks with my porn. :(

I think the thing I hate about a lot of modern vampire writing is that the condition itself is romanticized. Eternal life and beauty, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, sorry. If I get the bite today, that's definitely not what things will be like. Undeath doesn't automatically make a person gorgeous and independently wealthy. It's a curse, real and actual, and while you can work around it if you're willing to adopt a certain lifestyle, it's not nice.

YES! *points* That's what I meant about pros and cons.

And that is a great explanation.

That is what has been a turnoff for me regarding vampires in the past, and why I said 'this is not a romance!' Think that is one reason I like Bill and all his problems he encounters being a vampire--I sure don't envy him, not at all.

Characters who can Do It All also make me screech...I just am about to wallbang another book that I picked up because of the plague elements (lol) because the main character is gorgeous, she can run a castle with one hand behind her back, everyone adores her, she will save the world...and her hair never gets mussed up...

Kinda like the Harkness deal of eternal waking from death not being the coolest thing in the universe. (except sometimes it is)

Yeah...

I often wonder, does Jack REALLY want to die--forever????????

Of course we know his ultimate future, but he doesn't. (um, kind of an ew future, to me...)

I dislike the whole 'vampire romance' trope. My favorite vampire book has to be 'Those who Hunt the Night' by Barbara Hambly, followed by George RR Martin's Fevre Dream. Those vampires are scary, and while one can reach accommodation with them, you'd not let them into your bedroom, much less your bed.

If Vampires are simply long-lived, iron-craving humans with money and a better dress-sense, the whole 'vampire' thing goes out of the window. You might as well call them 'elves' and be done with it.

Oh hey, I think I have the GRRM book on my shelf. I bought it for GRRM not for the vampirage. I do envision my vampire scary, but he needs my main character's help (though when she finds out why, I am sure there will be major problems). "One can reach accommodation with them' perks my ears up.

Thank you for the Hambly suggestion.

Fevre Dream is great at subverting vampire stereotypes. It's depressing, but with a plucky, hideous hero--exactly what you'd expect from "GRRM does vampires."

I better have that on my shelf...I am sure I do. Plucky and hideous! I love how he does that...which of course is why I love Tyrion and have joined the millions who snarl at GRRM because the next book isn't out yet...

Growl.

I admit, I'm a sucker for sparkly vampires.* In my own vampires, I do the Anne Rice preternatural shine and jewel-like eyes. But really, I accept any of the vampire tropes, and I like seeing imaginative stuff. I remember one of Tor's romances had vampires who were parasites that wrapped themselves around the host's brain. Not exactly sexy, but I thought it was cool.

I guess I can think of some pet peeves:
Vampires who have been present at every single big historic event and knew every famous person.
The "woe, I must drink blood to survive!" is old.
And yes, most every vampire romance trope, though that doesn't stop it from being a secret indulgence.

I'd like to see more radical stuff done with vampires: alternate history, secondary world fantasy. (Not too much, though, since I want to monopolize it when I get published.)

* What bugged me about Twilight's vampires was that they forced themselves to live "normal" lives, meaning their centenarian "children" were stuck going to high school for eternity. Talk about hell on earth.

AHH I thought that very strange too! HIGH SCHOOL? WTH, why??? LOL.

Preternatural shine is not why Edward is sparkly, I hope... I can buy the first, not the latter. I gave my half-read copy of Twilight to my co worker, Juan--he loved the movie.

I admit, my little steampunker friends make me consider a steampunkish world..

Secondary world fantasy. What do you mean? :)

So, can vampires have Starbucks then? TRUE BLOOD's vamps survive on blood--or True Blood, of course. What do you like to see?

Specifically, I mean the angst over having to drink blood/kill to survive. Get over it, that's what I say.

A secondary world is one completely made up and independent of our world. (As opposed to portal fantasy, like Narnia, Oz, etc.) Stuff like Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire.

So why is he sparkly? I haven't read the books, I just know they don't go out in sunlight because they sparkle. (Why don't they use, I don't know, makeup?)

My mantra--GET OVER IT! LOL.

Oh okay...now, I am not a Jordan fan, but GRRM of course, yes...

I do not know why he sparkles, because I wallbanged the book. I just think cuz it makes him pretty or something. LOL.

Just make it real.

I mean - you'll have stereotypes going both ways that are being done, the 'dark abysmal, ripping throats out' life and the 'wooo shiny shiny but I love you so sex appeal kinda' stuff.

What I'd be looking for in a vampire story is something that makes it real. And yknow, a plot that goes further than vampire story which is probably kinda what criada is talking about.

I liked Anne Rice, no kidding about it, because i liked the mythology involved past the Vampire Interview book, those two Egyptian vampire things that didn't move anymroe except when they did - loved those.

Naturally, I'd like to see something dark and dirty. I'd like to see the mix of pleasure and guilt in the blood sucking, but no picking out curtains or any of that kinda stuff. Angel I suppose would be kinda not a bad basic idea for the mixture of both the dark and darkly-sensual in vampires but he always seemed too shiny and definitely not gritty enough to me.

I don't like contemporary vampires much. Like, urban vampires. Dunno, don't care for them running around in cities and hanging about on the tube or being in rockbands.

That said - I don't read vampire books so couldn't say what IS being done in that currently.

And yknow, a plot that goes further than vampire story whichis probably kinda what criada is talking about.

Exactly. And, I don't picture this contemporary at all, either...the vampire kit that started this all is circa 1850. I know little about that time period...heck all my studying has been around the 1600's. That's too long ago. LOL.

I think I'm going to snag the Barbra Hambly that was recommended. I am pretty sure I have the GRRRM vampire book on my shelf.

This might be a bit long and babblesome I'm afriad whilst I sort my thoughts out a bit.

Dracula-related thoughts
Although Vampire stories have been around before Dracula (links nicely to that book you've ordered there) a few things interest me about the older vampires which isn't often addressed in vampire novels or aren't really thought about where they come from.
Vampires, particularly older incarnations of them are undead in the literal sense- they are like dead bodies re-animated by Demonic Forces (Dracula included) this links to the whole drinking blood thing, which is the mainstay really of Vampire fiction although there have been other sorts of Vampire- Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes fights with an energy vampire, for example. This is because in the olden days (and I mean, going back to ancient times) the soul was believed to be carried in the blood- to lose your blood was to lose your soul, so something that drinks blood- well, it'd be like the Dementors in Harry Potter, really. This could also link with the idea of vampire's having no reflection-if your reflection is something to do with your soul and you eat souls then you can't emit anything like a reflection which could be a mirror to one's soul (this link's a bit tenuous, I'm afraid because of course this could equally be linked to something to do with vampires not liking sunlight- if a vampire absorbs everything-light/energy/soul/whatever then the sun absorbs into him/her and burns, and he/she can't emit anything like a reflection)
The stake through the heart thing might be linked to this, of course, because didn't the ancient egyptians believe that you thought with your heart and that was where your soul mainly resided? Of course, even without the soul-thing the idea you could kill a vampire by doing this makes sense- really it depends on the level of immortality (if any) an individual writer/creator chooses to give his/her vampires

The Garlic Idea I reckon comes from something far more practical- if you eat garlic or give an animal garlic their blood becomes distasteful to blood sucking beasties of various kinds. Even by the time Dracula was written this kind of mutated into the idea if you waved some around the vampire would freak out. Personally, I like the old wives remedy for being eaten by midgies better.

Holy Water/Crucifix- pretty obvious. If the vampire is basically damned (has no soul) then he/she is a devilish creation and holy water and crucifixes ward off such things (Anne Rice may be batshit insane, but I did like her take on this both with Armand in the early books and the parisian mummers devil worshipping because 'surely they were damned already' and Louis 'being quite fond of looking at crucifixes' and, of course, in later books, Blackwood's and Lestat's catholicism)

The key thing, then, about middle-ages-ish vampire hunters to think about is that to them they aren't killing a person, that person is already dead. they're killing a soul-drinking monster who happen to be inhabiting the body of someone else, that someone is trapped unable to get to heaven/purgatory until they are released.

Vampires I like (of note): Dracula is the big, fat obvious one, although he is also a symbol of his times (there's a hearty dose of xenophobia and the victorian views about appearance-linking to criminality in there)

cont'd in several posts

The Vampire Chronicles Vampires. Yes. I know. Anne Rice. Makes one feel a little bit soiled thinking about her...battiness. BUT I like plenty of author's novels without liking the author's themselves and I do like quite a few things about her vampires. For a start- none of them have the answers. They are neither all-powerful nor all-knowing. Lestat can read thoughts, but Louis can't, Marius loses his temper with the Old Ones, Akasha is...well, insane. Also I like the thing about not everyone being able to handle being a vampire (Nicholas goes insane, Lestat's maker jumps into flames after making him and also 'collected' blond young men) and find it hard to move with the times and have to continually move with the times. I also like some of her ideas about vampire phisiology (they can't have sex in the 'usual' way, because their means of reproduction have changed is an interesting and legitimate interpretation)

Poppy Z. Brite's 'Nothing' and 'Christian' (and the others) from 'Lost Souls'. These are interesting examples because Nothing is, pretty much, a normal kid. He doesn't get 'turned' the way older incarnations of vampires do, he's "born of blood and pain"- in Brite's world, a vampire, Zilla gets a girl pregnant (there are hardly any female vampires and those who are remain virgins at all costs) and the baby, basically, eats/drinks its way out, killing the mother. It's an interesting theory, however I do have some quibbles with Brite's ideas on this (and her obsession with absinthe) for a start because the baby then gets left with humans and lives on human food until he reaches his teens and runs away and has to figure out what's going on with him as he goes- how does a baby take in human food so soon after chomping (apparently toothlessly?) through a womb?
Additionally Brite then goes on with an interesting but hard-to-swallow ideas about vampire's evolving over time. Christian, who is very old, has long non-retractable teeth which come to just rest where his lower lip is. Zilla and later Nothing are younger and are born with 'normal' teeth which they then file into points in order to piece skin. The evolution is interesting but the speed of this supposed 'evolving' regardless of exactly how ancient Christian is (and by the name he is, at least, under 2000 years when the book is written) is rather odd. However, Brite does have some interesting ideas which I haven't seen in other vampires.

Count Duckula.
He's a cartoon character. I know. BUT he is a vegetarian vampire. Interesting for the idea that although vampires in this world are 'born' not 'made' they get brought back to life and become babies again ("by means of a secret rite, performed once a century when the moon is in the eight house") in Duckula's case, when the recipe called for blood, Tomato ketchup was used and POOF Veggie Vampire.However, despite this, and having no fangs, he has no reflection and the ability to 'poof' from one place to another.

cont'd...

Jeremy Capello from My Best Friend is A Vampire (yes. It is Robert Sean Leonard.) It's a crack-film from the 80s but, again, its ideas about vampires are interesting. In this one vampires are made by being bitten by a vampire, although it is never actually explained if this happens to everyone who gets bitten, or if there are other circumstances that make this possible. Vampires are part of a huge underground network and can buy Vampire-related products (Pigs blood beer, Pigs blood Wine etc) Mudoc, the 'Vampire Guidance Counciller' who helps Jeremy come to terms with his vampirism describes taking the blood as "like taking your vitamins" in this case (and in the case of Duckula's relatives, above) there's nothing about the idea that vampires can't drink blood unless it's 'live'- quite the contrary. Jeremy can also go out in sunlight although becomes sensitive to it and loses his reflecation and develops an allergy to garlic. Vampires can also turn into wolves (think Dracula and The Black Dog at Whitby) despite the fact that werewolves are mentioned offhand as existing. Whilst this is a cracky comedy and not exactly well-thought out in terms of 'what stays and what goes' in the list of vampire staples, it's interesting both for its ideas about vampires being able to live reasonably normal lives (they are not immortal either, though for every 10 human years, they age only 1) seeing their vampirism as a kind of vague medical condition and the links the film makes between vampirism and homosexuality during the time period.

Things I don't Like in Vampires
Superhuman. A few supernatural talents are fine (like Lestat's mind tricks, or Dracula's shape shifting abilities...and couldn't Varney the Vampire turn into steam and go through locks- or was that another penny dreadful vampire?) , but if they can do anything at all ever it's just a pain in the bum, I like them to have disadvantages. In 'My Best Friend Is A Vampire' Jeremy has to do stuff like paint over his window and sleep under the bed away from the dawning light, and cuts himself shaving because he's lost his reflection, but then he can climb really well and do mind tricks- although he messes them up and they don't really work.- it kind of balences out)

Ugly!Vamp (Y Hallo Ther Buffy's Vamps) I don't mean that they all have to be stunningly attractive, that's just as bad. Vampires, if you're not having them as a seperate species are basically humans. Some might be hot, some not that attractive but most would be just normal average looking people. Their ability to turn on the charm (if kept) might set them apart, but I don't like it when they're either Evil-therefore-Ugly or Not-Evil-and-Sex-Gods. I don't like the way in Buffy when the Vampires are going to drink from someone their faces shift all demonic-looking, because it's just...it makes them less like humans. I suppose it works for Buffy fans, but I don't like it that much.

I'm not that keen on Soulless vampires. However there is an epic Harry Potter fanfic by Maeglin Yedi ('To See the HUman Soul Take Wing') in which a vampire has a soul but his aura is broken, as if half his soul has died and the other half lived. The vampire in that is still a person, not a demon or an undead monster, simply some of him has gone (incidentally it's a very good fic).

Perfect!Vamps. I like them when they muck stuff up and make mistakes. You could live for a thousand years and not be perfect. I think Anne Rice's vampires show that perfectly, cos all of them (although I'm particularly thinking about Lestat at the moment) do some phenomenally stupid/reckless/daft things over the series.

Basically I don't like them to be devils nor Gods, not modern day vampires (it works for like Dracula's era, because I can read them in context, but, even from a religious perspective it doesn't work so well in my brain)

Er. I've now no idea about what I've covered or if I've missed anything important so if you have any questions or you think I've left something out then do ask me and I'll do my best to furnish you with an answer, I realise this might be rather babbly and disorganised.

All this is really great stuff, Mike. I am printing it out, along with everyone else's responses. Such great thoughts on vampires...I am confident I will be able to make _________ a good one.

Still no book, dammit... ARGH! I want it, NOW!! I need to check and see when it is slated to arrive, since I had to get it used.

I may snag your time for more questions later.

Well I hope some of it can be of use! Looking at the other responses they're all rather more succinct and readable than mine, I'm afraid my brain obviously just went "Vampires- what do I know about vampires? *SPLURGE*" and this was the result. It of course doesn't help that I've written my own vampires in the past (unfinished. To date my Nano novel is the only long piece I've ever finished and that had nothing to do with vampires at all) so I kind of did the whole 'hmming' and 'ahh'ing about vampire phisiology and mythology and orgins of myth and stuff....it all just gets tangled up in my brain!

I love vampires for their darkness. For how thought provoking they are... for their weaknesses and strengths.
I don't like them for their "love" concept, but for their "infatuation" concept. I don't see how a creature that's immortal can conceal any emotion in a thing, when the vampire has been around and had time to understand its emotion... however, when you read vampiric infatuation, it sounds so much more believable.

Sunlight, burning through flesh without the flames or the ash - I care and yet don't care. However, I do prefer the vampire whom just grows weak in the sunlight, not just falls to the floor and dies, but grows famished with fatigue and slowly crumbles. I'm not a big fan on flying vampires, or those that jump really high, however, keen senses and speed I fancy. I like modern day, as far as them blending in with average human, yet again, with speed, their reflexes.

Don't know if that answered your question or not.

I detest writers who portray their vampires to be dark, all-mighty, and emotionally inclined to falling madly in love. Give me a vampire that's in-depth, mysterious, and lusty and I'm in over my head.

I like having my wizards hurl fireballs at the evil bastards and watching them burn. :P

BRIAN!!!!!!

LOL. Sorry, I just think vampires are so played out. I'm just tired of seeing them everywhere. But whatever you do, please do not make them angsty, I feel bad I drink blood boo-hoo poor me.

Vampires are predators. A tiger does not cry himself to sleep at night because he ate Bambi. He's just damn glad he got a meal that day. Make your vamp not feel guilty because he is doing what he is doing because of his nature.

LOL actually, I really do appreciate your desire to kill all vampires. Your thoughts on vamps seem to echo others--he's a vamp, he drinks blood, GET OVER IT. LOL.

His vampiric state will not be the main focus of the story. It is rolling loosely in my head, the approach I want to take...so far, I am not seeing evidence of anything similar. He will not have his own POV either, as it will be written in first person in my female, non-romantic interest, POV.

I think the main thing is to remember your universe. As long as the rules always apply, it will be okay. Other than that, I could kind of ramble about vampires for ages. I've always been fascinated with them. And me rambling with no direction is a dangerous thing. >.>

I wasn't kidding about what I said to Em though. Vampire physiology seriously fucks with my porn. Like, they're dead, so they don't produce semen or fluid, but they have 'blood', so theoretically could get an erection. ~~I WILL NOT RANT ABOUT FUCKING SPARKLY VAMPIRE BABIES. I WILL NOT RANT ABOUT...~~

And what is it with the blood anyway? Does it like, go through a hole in their stomach and start to move through them? How does it 'make them warmer, more supple' from their stomachs? ARGH.

There, see. Rambling.

Yeah, but very logical ramblings...OY! I will have to come to terms with this, it seems! *bangs head on the wall*

but not tonight--I must sleep. (though not the sleep of the dead)

:)

Vampires...hmmm...

IMO they are pretty much played out in the media. Anne Rice was on the money with one line in The Vampire Lestat: "Everybody's sick of Count Dracula." That being said, I found Anne Rice's own vampire novels to be overrated and boring. The only parts I bothered reading were the beginning and end when Lestat was a rockstar; inbetween I just looked for how many mentions of The Savage Garden I could find, LOL.

I loved the vampires on Buffy before the show jumped the shark; I enjoy (not necessarily love) Bill on True Blood too. Why? Because he's different. He has both vampire and human traits, because vampires were human at one point. That scene where he pseudo-scares the little kids by putting pizza crusts in his fangs was my fave so far.

Can't comment much on Twilight as I'm not that familiar with it. Perhaps that's a good thing.

Now for likes and dislikes. I strongly dislike "stereotypical" vampires i.e. garlic kills them, sunlight kills them, no reflection, blah blah. Oh, and all vampires are evil and out for your blood. Yawn.

Likes: the dark romantic aspect, as long as it brings something new to the table. I love the idea of living at night, since IRL, I, well, do, LOL. I know you said your novel won't be a romance, but romance, or rather romanticism, seems to be a big part of vampirism to me. Individuality. Personality. Just like with human characters.

If you want some good ideas, I recommend, if you're not familiar with it already, to go to the True Blood subsite on HBO's website. That Nan character pretty much says it all.

Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass. ~

To All My Vampire Friends...

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